Re: Mac vs. PC

Wow Kyle, you just blew my mind. Yes, I agree, God is loving, and it isn't hateful for him to send people to hell, like you said, he gives them a choice. God doesn't want to force us to love him, that's not real love, he gives us the choice. It breaks my heart when people rejects the love of Christ. But if people are going to reject him, then if they were forced to love him, that wouldn't be real love. My dad always said, I don't love you because you're my daughter, I love you because I choose too. That means a lot more to me, and that right there folks, is the truth, real, true love, loving someone not because you have to, but because you want to.

Re: Mac vs. PC

Now I'm not stating my beliefs, I'm putting this out there, because I've been asked this and have been at a bit of a loss for words...How do we know the Bible is true??? And how do we know we have completely accurrate versions?

Re: Mac vs. PC

Excellant question Ima pumpkin. I have always just believed in the Holy Bible. Gods word. But when confronted with that same question, I don't know how to respond either and have always felt as if I am having to defend my faith in God which I have no problem doing, however, I would love to have a clear cut Kyle answer. =) With so many versions out there, I have been told that I am not reading the "real" Word of God if I am not in the King James version, because it has been translated into another format. But wouldn't that be true of the King James as well...The first bible was in Hebrew right?

Re: Mac vs. PC

Kyle, the concept of relativism I believe is being driven by the fact(ironically of course) that we live in a free country. You are free to have whatever religious beliefs and philosophy of life you want according to our Constitution. So when you talk about believing something is true, you are infringing on another's rights. It wasn't such a problem years ago when the country was Christian for the most part, but it is now with all these non-Christian faiths as well as the growing number of people who have no faith at all. That has created an atmosphere of pluralism where people see other faiths besides Christianity and ask why aren't those true? And in turn ask you how do you know that Chrisitianity is true? This relativism on faith also leads to relativism on ethics as you said. If Christianity isn't true, then the morality stemming from it is just as good as morality coming from another religion or belief. Thus the battle in our culture, politics, schools, media, you name it.

Re: Mac vs. PC

Wow, well said Jason...never thought of it that way, but yes, that's kind of how I feel, sadly...who am I to tell one of my best friends (who is a barely-practicing Muslim) that she's going to go to hell if she believes that Jesus was only a prophet (which is what they teach, they believe the Christain version of the Bible is inaccurate). sigh....

Re: Mac vs. PC

You guys have to check out the Toledo Campus blog and see what Smithers did to his car. Maybe we should just keep this place at two locations. -ha

Re: Mac vs. PC

That's just beautiful...makes me feel better about myself imensely. Thanks for directing us there, I never noticed there even WAS a Toledo blog, good stuff on there...I don't suppose there's ONE SPOT you can go to to (tutu?) see if there's been new comments added? All the skippin around makes me dizzy. Well, dizzier.

Re: Mac vs. PC

Hey Ritchie, yeah great point Jesus spoke Aramaic not 16th century english - Lee pointed that out on stage a couple weeks ago.
And Ima a great source for me to answer some of those questions has been Lee Strobel. His books Case for Faith and Case for Christ are amazing resources.
Also doesn't Barb Roose teach a class called Bible essentials where some of the translation stuff is covered? I never made time to take it - not sure if it's still offered!
That said, what seems like a lifetime ago I was one of the loudest moral relativists you could ever hope to meet. Early in my life I did a lot of theological wandering and tried on a variety of beliefs and philosophies. With so many voices in my head relativism was an easy way to reconcile it all.
After comming to Christ, the ironic part was looking back on my little quest, and hindsight being what it is, I saw how obviously God kept using what was false to point me to what was true.
God's truth is on all of our hearts, and while I recommend those books enthusiastically, and while they'll help you defend your Lord, it is impossible to please God without faith (Heb. 11:6). There is a part of God that we will simply never know on earth because we are just plain incapable. We have to take Him at His Word. Believe God folks, don't just believe in Him!
Oh and Ima, do it with love, but who you are is a child of the King and if you decide to tell your friend the truth about Christ, you'll be an evangelist. LoveLoveLove!!!

Re: Mac vs. PC

What does it mean in the Bible when it says to fear the Lord?

Re: Mac vs. PC

Hey Kyle, I have been a christian for about two years now of my life. I haven't always been very christian like. I have swore with my friends and just have done some other un christian things. Now I don't want to do those things anymore. So if If I don't do those things anymore, should I just watch my friends do them? Get drunk, swear, talk of in appropriate topics. Who am I to say that's wrong, especially because used to do it too, but should I say something to them. They think that ever since I've started going to Cedar Creek I have been sitting on a high horse. They say that I am just like them, and that deep down I'll never change. I want to live a good life, should I just talk to my friends. Or as hard as it seems, find some new friends. I am tired of the life of partying, sleeping with women I barely know, cussing. It really affects my daughter Amanda when I do those things, for a while, I never even got to see her, her mother didn't want her around me. I'm ready for change, should I try to change my friends, or leave them in my past? My past has always come back to haunt me.

Re: Mac vs. PC

Jeremy, you go dude!! how exciting!! Well, the part about you being a new believer...as for your friends reaction, yeah, I'm sure you're often discouraged and confused...I've been a believer for about 12 years and have kept some of my old friends but have gravitated more to newer ones that share my beliefs. I find that the more I hang with unbelievers I find myself backsliding into old habits. I would definitely talk to them, though, you never know if one of them might be unhappy with that lifestyle, too, and you could be the tool God uses to bring them to Himself. If you're not sure how to approach them take that class the Creek is offering called "Walk Across the Room", it's about approaching others with your faith...I'm taking it, after all these years I STILL need help in this area. In the meantime you might want to cut down on the time you spend with these friends and try to get involved with things going on at church. Take some of the classes and volunteer in areas you think you may like, there's sooo much going on at the Creek it's a great way to feed your new faith and develop healthier relationships. Good luck!!!!

Re: Mac vs. PC

I prefer PC personally. But whan it comes to truth I think what really answers the question is behind what you wrote "What we are doing is undermining the word of God, the nature of God Himself and who Jesus Christ was, is and will forever be." Truth is truth because God is true. I get kinda of tired of people talking about truth as if it is some standard that God set down. Truth is not principle, it is personal. That is to say that God is truth. It is his very character. Things are true becuase of who God is, not the other way around. It is wrong to murder, it is wrong to lie, it is wrong to steal, all becuase of who God is, not just because he arbitrarily picked some standard and said live by it. So when you really stop and think about God is the ultimate realtivist. However, we aren't. That is why God works inthe hearts of his children to make them like Christ. He doesn't just call us to act like Christ, he is making us like Christ.

Hey Jeremy, it is great to hear that you dont want to get bogged down by all that sin anymore. That is really proof that God is working in your life to make you more like Christ. But don't worry about trying to change behavior of the people around you. You don't have to tell them what is wrong, becuase deep down they already know it or else they wouldn't give you a hard time. The best way to influence them is to get closer to God. Read the Bible, pray for them and yourself, and let God handle the rest. He is the only one who can change hearts. ANd when he has worked on changing yours for a while, they will see that.

Re: Mac vs. PC

To Ima Pumpkin: We are actually working on a "Recent Comments" portion of the website that will just aggregrate the data from all of the sites blogs into one central location (much like the RSS Feeds link at the top of the page currently does for the blogs), except in this case, just for comments. Stay tuned!

Re: Mac vs. PC

We are all dying in a way, the moment we were born we started dying. Ya'll see now, we're all gonna die, so like maybe your born, and your ginna being dying maybe until your 50, or maybe you'll be dying unitl your 81, then your dead. So like, your whole life is your last days. Now, I don't mean to get all wise on you folks, but ya'll missin' the point, back when I was younger, we lived in Dallas, Texas, my pa told me that my grand daddy was dying, and that he only had 7 weeks left, and I jsut balled my eyes out, but my pa told me to suck in all my feelins and that my grand daddy didn't need some pathetic little excuse for a young man crying that he was gonna die, when he was the one dying. So I saw my grand daddy, and I broke through, I started crying, but my grand daddy laughed and gave me alittle shove, he said, "Emilio, you stop cryin now, you ain't cryin for me, your cryin for you! I'm goin to Heaven, you outta be jealous! I ain't upset, I had my time, now I believe i've passed the test of life, and I get to start my eternity with Jesus Christ, now ya'll be good, hopefully I'll be seein ya there, I'll be waitin Emilio, I'll be waitin. So when you think of me, think, no fair!" And htat's when i realized that life is not nearly as important as afterlife.

Re: Mac vs. PC

Kyle, I really must say, wonderful job with the service this weekend. It really made me think. If you think about eternity with Christ, life seems so small compared to that. Life is like a test, we're put here on this earth to take it, and learn lessons on the way. God gives us his love, we either tkae it, or reject it. In order to pass this test, we have to accepy Jesus Christ. When we pass, we go to Heaven, if we fail, we go to hell. I guess it really shouldn't matter to me, if I choose to do the right things, even if the wrong thing seems more appealing, or if people think I'm super religious, for praising God, going to church, talking about Christ, trying to bring others to Christ, or just acting like a Christian. It doesn't matter how people will treat you about that, it's all going to be worth it in the end, to spend eternity with Christ is much more of a reward than getting to do what you want on earth. People who don't believe may laugh right now, but in the end, the Christians will have the last laugh.

Re: Mac vs. PC

I also have to say that when the topic of judgement day came up. My aunt and uncle came straight to my thoughts. My aunt used to be a follower of Christ, she was baptized (as an adult), she went to church, she truly loved Christ, and her faith seemed to be so strong. But she started dating my uncle, and he's really intelligent, and believes science theory's of everything. Yes, my uncle, is an aetheist. So after trying to pursuay my aunt to believe his way, she ended up turning away from God, and became an aetheist. I feel so much pain about it, I love my aunt and uncle so much, I wish that they would know the truth, but the sad part is, my aunt knew the truth, she felt the spirit of the Holy Ghost, and know ... she denies Him. I have tried so hard to bring them to Christ, but whatever I say, they just simply tell me that I can't prove it. I tell them that with god, you cna't see him, you just see the affects of him, but they still don't believe. I worry about them more than ever, because if they were to get in a car accident, or have cancer, or anything that would cause them death, they wouldn't be with Christ. I used to fear that I would not make it past judgement day, but my faith has grown, and now, I fear that they won't. Please pray for my aunt and uncle, they really need it, they need a miracle.

Re: Mac vs. PC

I am not smart enough to contribute anything of use to this blog :(

Re: Mac vs. PC

OK, this is long, but stick it out! I think it's worth a gander!
Ps: it's kind of in response to Ima's first post, and also a response to Kyle's blog.

A big statement heard in the secular world today says, "There are no Absolutes." ...think about that statement...IT IS AN ABSOLUTE!!! and therefore proves that there are absolutes, and if there are absolutes, there MUST be an absolute truth (because "There are absolutes,"as we have just proven, is absolutely true), and if TRUTH is not relative (and therefore absolute), it cannot come from the individual, and if it cannot come from the individual (mankind), where must it come from? Some would say that society (or a certain culture) determines what is true, moral, etc., but many societies differ in morality and culture (therefore making truth relative again, which we already proved it cannot be), and so we must conclude that Absolute truth comes from someONE who knows more than man (scientists today call this person the "intelligent design[er]"). We know this person as GOD! So there, we just proved God exists! and if God exists, and He sets the standard for truth, He must be truth, because only truth can be its own standard of measurement because if it weren't absolutely true, it wouldn't be truth, it would be untruth, therefore disproving that there are absolute truths and absolutes, which we have already proven cannot be, so God MUST exist, and MUST be truth. And if God is truth, all that He says is Truth, because untruth cannot come from the mouth of truth ("out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks," "No good tree bears bad fruit," etc.). If all He says is truth, then we know (by what He said) that He is greater than all things. If God is GREATER than ALL (this excludes nothing) things, do you think He isn't bigger than time? God said created time by the way, and since He did that, He must be outside of it, and if He is outside of it, He is bigger than all those who are in it (that would be mankind/all creation). And who is a part of "ALL of creation"? Are the writers of the Bible a part of that (remember, ALL excludes NOone)? I think they are. And aren't the translators of the Bible throughout time a part of that creation that God is outside of? I think they are too. And if they are ALL inside of God's creation, He is bigger than all of them (because He is bigger than that creation) and If He is bigger than all of them, do you really think He would allow sooooooo many people to follow a doctrine that was incorrect and leads away from Him if they are really trying to find Him? I certainly don't. I don't think that ANYTHING is out of the scope of God's influence, including those who interpreted/translated the Bible (His Word) into its current forms and translations, which means that they are accurate to what God wants them to be, and if so, they are Truth because God said them and is saying them to us.
Whew! That was A LOT of typing to answer your question Ima. God's got me on a roll! Next Topic please!!! lol God bless, hope this helped clarify a few things, or at least entertained you for a bit!

Re: Mac vs. PC

To aharm: Wow, that was awesome and i agreed until i remembered that the muslim faith has been around longer than Christianity. And there are more muslims than Christians. So to follow your theory that would mean that Islam is truth!! ;) C'mon, please keep working on this people!! I believe God has recently put me in a position to reach a LOT of people with my faith, but I need some solid answers because this is a question I struggle with myself...how do we know every word in the bible is completely accurate in translation? And how do we know its true?

Thanks guys!!

Re: Mac vs. PC

Ima Pumpkin, A couple things :- ) Islam IS NOT older than Christianity! How did you come to this?? And, Islam has about 1 Billion followers. Christianity has about 2 Billion followers! And, again, we know the bible is true because 1) God instituted an Authoritative Church to be the custodian of the Sacred texts. This Church preserved and handed them to us through Sacred Tradition. 2) It also partly a "leap of faith". 3) It can *materially* be proven, through the Catholic Church, that what we read in our English bibles (here in the U.S.) is accurately translated. Secular sources help on this also. Joe

Re: Mac vs. PC

I stand corrected, I apologize...2 billion Christians and 1.5 Muslims. And Islam began in the 7th century. Seems a bit insignificant considering the context of the conversation...my point was that the length of the life of a religion and the number of its adherents doesn't constitute faith. I think that point still stands.

Re: Mac vs. PC

Ima Pumpkin, there is an awesome book by Lee Strobel called "The Case for Christ". The CC bookstore has it. It will really help answer some of the questions that you've asked about the Bible and Christianity. He also has another book called "The Case for Faith". I keep several copies of these books to refer to and to give people that are looking for some answers.